GROW B2B FASTER

Ep 01 - Logan Lyles - How to start your own B2B podcast & win leads through it

November 04, 2020 Sammy Gebele/ Logan Lyles Season 1 Episode 1
GROW B2B FASTER
Ep 01 - Logan Lyles - How to start your own B2B podcast & win leads through it
Chapters
5:25
How did sweetfish Media get into podcasting?
12:45
How do you get in touch with potential podcast guests and convince them to come on the podcast
15:35
How to brand your podcast
17:35
Why weekly podcasts are more successful than less frequent ones
22:06
Batch production of podcast episodes to overcome the difficulty of weekly podcasting
23:54
The creative process behind podcasting to find new topics every week
31:14
How to turn podcast guests into potential leads
37:41
Why giving your guest time to shine in your episode improves your quality as a podcast
39:46
LinkedIn as the best platform to promote and distribute your podcast
49:07
Logans recommendations on a software toolkit and gadgets for starting a podcast
GROW B2B FASTER
Ep 01 - Logan Lyles - How to start your own B2B podcast & win leads through it
Nov 04, 2020 Season 1 Episode 1
Sammy Gebele/ Logan Lyles

"That's in it for you":

05:25 - How Sweet Fish Media got into podcasting

12:45 - How do you get in touch with potential podcast guests and convince them to come on the podcast

15:35 - How to brand your podcast

17:35 - Why weekly podcasts are more successful than less frequent ones

22:06 - Batch production of podcast episodes to overcome the difficulty of weekly podcasting

23:54 - The creative process behind podcasting to find new topics every week

31:14 - How to turn podcast guests into potential leads

37:41 - Why giving your guest time to shine in your episode improves your quality as a podcast

39:46 - LinkedIn as the best platform to promote and distribute your podcast

49:07 - Logans recommendations on a software toolkit and gadgets for starting a podcast

Learn from Logan, Co-Host of B2B Growth, a B2B podcast with 3.5 million downloads and over 1,600 episodes on how to get started and run your own successful B2B podcast.

This episode is sponsored by SAWOO - " We help you grow your B2B business faster"

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

"That's in it for you":

05:25 - How Sweet Fish Media got into podcasting

12:45 - How do you get in touch with potential podcast guests and convince them to come on the podcast

15:35 - How to brand your podcast

17:35 - Why weekly podcasts are more successful than less frequent ones

22:06 - Batch production of podcast episodes to overcome the difficulty of weekly podcasting

23:54 - The creative process behind podcasting to find new topics every week

31:14 - How to turn podcast guests into potential leads

37:41 - Why giving your guest time to shine in your episode improves your quality as a podcast

39:46 - LinkedIn as the best platform to promote and distribute your podcast

49:07 - Logans recommendations on a software toolkit and gadgets for starting a podcast

Learn from Logan, Co-Host of B2B Growth, a B2B podcast with 3.5 million downloads and over 1,600 episodes on how to get started and run your own successful B2B podcast.

This episode is sponsored by SAWOO - " We help you grow your B2B business faster"

Sammy:
The topic of this podcast on our webinar is how to start your b2b podcast series. And we want to learn from Logan and his the b2b growth show that has over 4 million downloads in over 1600 episodes. So super, super stoked to have you on the show here. And I honestly listen to your podcast weekly. So thanks a lot for joining us, Logan.

Logan:
Oh, thanks so much for listening to the show. Sammy, thanks for that introduction. Yeah, we like to say we've been, we've been podcasting before podcasting was cool. Again, you know, the last two years podcasting has really exploded in kind of a second wave, the first wave of podcasting was pre-iPhone, right. And it was different. You had to, you know, sync iTunes on your desktop and move it over to your iPod and those sorts of things. And so now podcasting has kind of gone through this resurgence. Obviously, as we look for more passive content, people are consuming more audio, and both podcasts and audiobooks and that sort of stuff. So it's a fun place to be in right now. And excited to share, you know, what we've learned in launching over 100 podcasts at this point with everybody here.

Sammy:
Awesome. So before we start, maybe a short introduction about the host of the show, which is subu, the company I have mentioned that. So we have b2b companies, when leads through LinkedIn with a very personalized and individualized support. And but now I would like to learn something about you and sweet fish media. So tell me how, like, tell me, how did you When did you join sweet fish, which is the company of the b2b growth show? And how did you come to podcasting?

Logan:
Yeah, so I was actually a listener of the b2b growth show, which is our daily b2b marketing podcast for sweet fish media. So sweet fish. We are a podcast agency for b2b brands. So we produce podcasts, exclusively for companies that sell business to business we don't do kind of the mass market, consumer podcasts. And b2b growth is the flagship show that sweet fish produces for our own brand. But before I was part of sweet fish, I was in I had been about 10 years into my b2b sales career. And I started listening to podcasts because I was doing a lot of driving, I was in outside sales, and had a lot of what I call windshield time in the car. And I started listening to James, the founder of sweet fish and the team on the b2b growth show and listening to sales and marketing content there, became a fan, got on the email list, and actually became friends with James I was looking at starting my own marketing agency with a friend and I reached out to James to pick his brain about his entrepreneurship journey. And he kindly applied some that venture I was thinking about didn't work out. But my friendship with James did and it was about a year after I met him, that I joined sweet fish and me, I stepped into two roles, the host of our podcast, which is why I've got the podcast mic in front of me and you see the mic flag with b2b growth right in front of me here, and director of partnerships for sweet fish. So basically, I head up sales for sweet fish. And we'll talk a little bit more about our podcasting strategy. But just a little Prelude there. There's a reason that I head up sales for our agency. And I'm also the primary co-host of our podcast because we see podcasts as a way to not only generate reach but help you build relationships. So it's a marketing and a and a sales tool. And the short answer to your earlier question, see me I've been with sweet fish for about two years now. And we've been on a phenomenal growth path. I joined us full-timer number four. And today we're over 25 people, we just hired three new producers. Well, we've, we've been very fortunate as podcasting continued to grow. And we've kind of evolved our service to with all the things that we've learned with each new podcast, we launch it, I feel like we learned something new.

Sammy:
I think most people I know use iOS honestly. Yeah. So I never heard of this. Interesting, interesting. So let's, let's start. How did sweetfish Media get into podcasting?

Logan:
Yeah, so this actually ties into that strategy that I mentioned earlier, where say where, excuse me, where podcasting is not only a marketing tool, but a sales tool. So about five years ago, James founded the company after a few other potential startups, and sweet fish media was actually started as a blog writing agency. And we landed our first customer, which was a nonprofit, it was actually a church plant, in Texas, here in the States. And as most early-stage companies go, whether you're a SaaS business or a service-based business, what do you do Sammy, you find that one customer and you're like, how can I find more that look like this one, right. And so James is, as the founder, was thinking that now he's a very charismatic guy as well-spoken guy. He's been the host of the podcast forever, he does a lot of speaking. But he hates cold calling. He doesn't like cold outreach. He doesn't like doing that. He just doesn't have you know, what I would say, is a sales bone in his body, if you will. And so he said, Well, I don't want to cold call all these people. But I know this ideal customer profile that I want to go after. And he had done some passion projects with a friend, I think he had started a podcast called inspiring, awesome, you can probably still find it on Apple podcast somewhere, no new episodes in a while. But he said, Well, what if we started a podcast for these church leaders in these nonprofit leaders, and I invited my prospects to be a guest on this new podcast, I'll get to talk shop with them, we'll create some content, and I'll maybe generate some relationships where there might be an opportunity to talk business. And the thing that really surprised him, he queued up 100 emails, 100 email addresses of prospects he had identified that fit that new persona or that new profile, and 80 people responded and said, Yes, Sammy, and you guys do outreach via LinkedIn. Right? And any channel, when was the last time you saw an 80% reply rate on any sort of outreach campaign?

Never, honestly. It doesn't happen. Now. Now the bad news was none of those nonprofits had a budget for the blog writing that we wanted to offer. So it was at that point where we said, well, they're b2b companies know specifically who they're trying to reach, you usually know, what is the company profile? What's the title? Right. And so since you know, very narrowly, who that is, and a pod and interview-based podcast needs a guest instead of focusing on industry thought leaders and, and authors and speakers to have on your podcast to try and reach the audience over here. What if you just go straight to the audience and say, Hey, Mr. or Mrs. potential customer, I'd like to have you as a guest on our podcast, you still create content, you can still slice and dice that and, and use it in your inbound marketing strategy. But even if no one ever finds that content, that guest of your podcast could end up doing business with you. Or they might refer you to a friend who is also, you know, fits your ideal buyer persona. So it was that that light bulb moment that caused us to pivot into podcasting, specifically for b2b brands.

Sammy:
Now, that's really amazing what you're saying so. So to sum it up, basically, even if no one attends your podcast, you have at least this one to one relationship with the guests of your podcast. And, and you spend some time and I can tell you so you have a car before we will deep dive level later, but before the podcast, you will, you'll have some time with the guests before you will have the podcast, we maybe have a debrief. So you develop a personal relationship. And this is valuable. And this goes a little bit against the soil. I would say optimization age, which was maybe between 2000 2020 where everything was everybody and everything was fine to automate on scale. And you're going on No, I don't have to reach 10,000 people, I pick one. And this is my ideal customer and I spend time with this person and develop a relationship. So I really like what you're doing you and it obviously seems to work.

Logan:
Yeah, absolutely. I've been with the company now for two years. And we as you said, we're 1600 episodes into our podcast. So we are seeing the long term inbound marketing effects of a podcast now as people listen Find the interest, find out about sweet fish, develop interest and reach out to us. But our podcast guests over the last two years, we've had as much business come from podcast guests relationships, as we have from listeners coming inbound to us. And it's it, we've put a name to the strategy. Now we call it content-based networking. Our founder, James has now written a book. And that's the title of it content-based networking. And I just posted on LinkedIn today, we think that content-based networking is always going to give you better results than just content marketing, because it gives you all the same benefits of content marketing, if, you know, if Sammy, you fit my ideal customer profile, I invite you on our podcast, we have a great conversation, like you said, you and I, there could be something that happens from that one to one relationship that maps to revenue for the business. But I'm still gonna take that podcast, and I'm still going to publish it. And I'm maybe going to turn it into a written post on LinkedIn, and maybe gonna take a video clip of it. I can, you know, share that to my email list. I'm still doing content marketing, we're not saying don't do content marketing, we're just saying layer on this networking aspect of content-based networking. While you're doing your content marketing, I see it is really a cheat code, because it allows you to play the long game and the short game, because we know that inbound and content marketing, it takes time, it takes time to build the brand. And while you're doing that, instead of just kind of hacking away to blog posts and hoping that it gets seen by a prospect in a year, right? go directly to someone. And now you can do content-based networking with a podcast, you can do it with a webinar, you can do it with video series, if you have a YouTube channel. So if you already have a channel, where you're producing content, I would say, try to use content-based networking, invite potential customers in to be a guest or a speaker or a contributor, invite them in to be part of the content collaboration, not just a potential consumer of the content.

Sammy:
Now, I think it's smart in two ways.
First of all, as you said, it's a potential lead. But the person you invited as a guest, but second, this person speaks the language of your potential customers. So it's not like some high-level professor or thought leader who's like, flying back 10 1010 miles above everyone else. And almost no one understands him or her. It's like, from the people for the people so to say, so they really understand what he's talking about. They have the same issues. And maybe this person has a solution for the issues, and they trust that person. So that's really clever. I like it a lot in why we have that topic. Let me ask you, how do you get in touch with potential guests? How do you do it? What would be your advice?

Logan:
Yeah, I would say most people are very, very surprised, Sammy, how often people say yes, even if it's a new show or a new podcast. And I think really the trick to this, if there is a trick is to not try to justify it not trying to add credibility where there isn't credibility. So for instance, Sammy, if, if you and the team started a new podcast, you might be tempted to say, Hey, you know, so and so we are, we're starting a new podcast, and it's going to be about this, and we don't have any listeners yet. But we're going to do this and this and, and, and put together this growing long, you know, email that becomes a big long PR pitch, and it looks like a PR pitch. And I get a lot of those. And I don't ever read them because they're too long. So I would say keep your outreach short, create a curiosity gap, you don't have to answer all the questions that you think the person is going to ask. You want to get them to ask that question. Because once they're engaged, you guys see this and their LinkedIn outreach you do, right? When you create a curiosity gap, instead of trying to answer all the questions, they come to you now they're engaged now that back and forth is where the magic happens. And you convert them to the next step, whether you're trying to book a meeting or secure a podcast guest. And then the other tip I would say makes it all about them. Right. So Sam, if I'm reaching out to you, you know, I'd say hey, we love to feature emerging entrepreneurs and great business leaders like yourself to talk about what you're struggling with and the solutions that you're coming up with, up for being our guest. And literally those two or three sentences that I just found it off could be your entire first email. Now you want a second and third, maybe a fourth email to drip out, you know that you can use sales loft or outreach or one of those tools or maybe you know, a more affordable one like woodpecker or mailshake. Very easy to set up. Kind of an automated sequence, to keep that outreach very, very brief and make it all about them, because your podcast, if you're going to use this content-based networking strategy, you don't want it to be all about your expertise and your brand. You want it to be all about the practitioners that you serve, and their day today. And so if you have a show that's all about, you know, whether you serve lawyers or marketers at SAS companies, how do you make it all about them so that they can talk about their day to day, whether that relates directly to your product or service? Because then as you said, CME, it's going to create content that their peers want to consume and learn from. And they're going to say, Yes, so, you know, for instance, we could have the sweet fish media podcast, but no one's searching for sweet fish media, right? We could have the b2b podcasting podcast, but then I couldn't invite you, Sammy, and say, Hey, you guys want to be a guest on our show about podcasting? And you're like, well, we haven't done a podcast before. I don't have anything to say about it. But if I say, hey, Sammy, come on the b2b growth show, you're like, I'd love to talk about how we're achieving growth at our company. And b2b is a highly searched term in Apple podcasts, and Spotify, and all of those. And so when you shine the spotlight on the practitioners you serve, rather than your own brand, you're going to get more guests. And you're going to get more listeners. So I kind of went into the listeners. But I think the way that we approach podcast guest outreach also helps you attract more listeners as it does guests as well.

Sammy:
Awesome. Thanks a lot. And you directly typed into the question that I had lined up how to brand your podcast, and you already answered that one, it's basically it's not about yourself. It's about the people you invite and the target group you have in mind. So thinking about them and thinking about maybe the value that you bring to the that you want to bring to the target group. So you don't do podcasts for the sake of podcasting. You help others to create a good podcast in order to help them grow. So b2b growth is, is the logical name of the show. Makes absolutely sense. Let me take one second, I just want to add, that's something I forgot. And thank you. For our assistant who told me right now, you can, you can ask questions here. So you can ask questions. There's a chat, there's a question section here. So if you have any questions, feel free to ask them. And we try to either I either get them in at this moment if there is a fit, or we will be left for short q&a at the end. So let's get back into it. So the next question that I have is, and I don't know if there's a perfect answer for that one. But how often should you podcast? Is there a minimum? Or is this something we say? That's where you have the most? Get the most out of it?

Logan:
Yeah, I would say, you know, you have to take this with a grain of salt, because we're a podcast agency. And it's, you know, in our best interest to tell our customers that the more you do, the more results you will see. But as I mentioned before, we've launched over 100 shows, we've had our show active for over four years. And today, we actively manage 60, to 70, podcasts, all in the b2b space. And the ones that are growing the most are more frequent. They're not doing an episode a month or a couple a quarter. They are one, they're consistent, and they're more frequent, we see weekly, as really that tipping point where weekly or greater, you see much more results than if you're doing you know, once every other week, or once a fortnight as my Australian customers like to say or once a month or less frequently. Now, if you need to start out with every other week to make it manageable, but you're interviewing potential customers, then you work that angle until you know you get into a rhythm and your ROI positive on the podcast, and then you double down and you go to weekly, but there's a couple reasons I think weekly is the tipping point. podcasting is just such a cereal medium, people subscribe, and they tend to stay subscribed, and they tend to look forward to I'm going to hear Sammy on Thursday when they drop an episode. And so the more that you can take advantage of that. Also, the more that you can stay in front of folks. You know, we talked a little bit about the explosion of podcasts in the last two years. And it's I hear it all the time where people are like, oh, there's too many podcasts. There are too many marketing podcasts. There are too many entrepreneurship podcasts. The fact of the matter is, there's about a million podcasts active in Apple podcasts right now. And it seems like a big number, but not when you compare it to the 40 million YouTube channels and the billions and billions of blogs and no one's saying well, it's too late to have a blog. Right. So by comparison, podcasting is actually very, very unsaturated when you compare that 1 million number to the much higher numbers of other channels. And also when you look at that 1 million, there are a lot of those that aren't active because the far majority of podcasts don't last. And then when you look at the smaller portion that is active, they're not very frequent. And then the ones that that are also there are some that aren't consistent, they might go every week for a while, and then they stop. And so if you can be frequent and consistent, even just weekly, and it's not like you have to show up the same time every week, it's on-demand content, you can batch for at the beginning of the month, and schedule them out to release every Thursday. If you can do that, then there's actually a lot of Greenfield opportunity for you to reach an audience. And like we said, the guest relationships being a benefit as well. There's just there's still massive opportunity for folks that are, are diving in, I was just listening to a marketing podcast last night. And he said, You know, we're up to to 3000 subscribers. And b2b marketing is a very saturated place for all sorts of content, people producing content about content, and, and all these sorts of things. And he said, I could have said that, you know, there wasn't room for another Marketing Podcast. So that was a good example. And that was actually just a show I listened to not one that we produce. So that's, you know, I tail from out there in the wild, not just me kind of advocating for podcasts.

Sammy:
Oh, absolutely. And I mean, on top of that, you usually have a very, very no target group. So it's not everybody, it's a very narrow target group with a specific problem where you want to end your podcast around. So and then if you look at this podcast that posts frequently, like once a week, there's probably not many any more left in the space. And then you bring you something unique to the table. And I think it's always worthwhile, as you said, you never know until you try and it's not as saturated as all the other channels in a lot of companies invest a lot of money in other channels. Why not? Why to the podcast? So one question that popped up right now, because I thought about what you said and whatnot, I'm the only one producing content. And I thought, Oh, I would love to have it weekly. But I cannot manage that by myself. How did you solve this problem?

Logan:
Yeah, so there are a couple of ways you can do this. So one batching batch creating your content. Because sometimes, you know, we see this with some of our customers, Sammy where they say, and we really want our CEO to be the podcast host. He has the industry knowledge, he has the connections, he has the charisma. But the CEO also has the least amount of time of anybody as well. And for a lot of the Marketing Leaders I talked to, they agree with me when I say it's probably easier to get your CEO for four hours One morning, you know, the first Friday of the month than it is to get him or her for 30-minute chunks or 45-minute chunks, you know, once a week, and they're like, Yeah, absolutely. So I think batching really helps. You can also, you know, do a mixture that I talked about b2b growth not being the b2b podcasting, podcast. Now, b2b growth is all about b2b marketing, and podcasting fits within that. So in addition to interviewing customers and prospects, occasionally we'll do a how-to podcast episode a how-to on podcasting, and talk directly about, you know, what we're learning from launching shows and things like that, just like the content we're sharing here. And those I don't need an outside guest, I could hop on and do a solo episode. And so make batching mixing up your, your episode types. Those two things can really help you get ahead of the game and build a queue of potential episodes to release so that you're not having to record and release every single week and no one's hair's on fire.

Sammy:
We got one question that fits well. So I just read it. It's from then the other thing yet, Daniel, how'd you come up with new topics every week? And what kind of creative forces is behind that?

Logan:
Yeah, so this is something that we've been thinking a lot about. Early. In our podcast, we were admittedly kind of very cavalier about this, we would say, hey, Sammy, you want to come on the podcast? And as soon as you say yes, we'd say, great. We talk anything b2b marketing, what do you want to talk about? Now, when you're talking to marketers, oftentimes, they can come up with content, right pretty quickly, because it's what they do. But you might not sell the marketers, you might sell the IT folks or entrepreneurs or CEOs or HR leaders. But we firmly believe that everybody has content that can be helpful for their peers, it's the things that they talk about, I'd say over the watercooler here in the US, it's over zoom lately, but it's the things that they talk to their peers about. So we've actually developed a process that we call POV discovery, or point of view discovery. And what we do with most of our guests now is we block 30 minutes to 45 minutes for the actual interview. But before we do that, we have a short 15-minute prep call with the guests We ask some repeatable questions. And these can work. Again, whether your guest is in marketing, or sales or HR or manufacturing, or whatever the case is. One of the questions that we asked there would be Sammy, what's a commonly held belief in b2b sales that you passionately disagree with? Now I can see the smile on your face, you're starting to think through I yeah, I know the last argument I had about you know about such and such on sales or this on LinkedIn, asking that sort of question in a prep call, can find where's the passion? And where's the expertise of your guests where they really have something new to offer? Another question could be it again, I'll use you as kind of a guinea pig, Sammy, Sammy, what's something that your team has tried in the last quarter that you were surprised by the results either, you know, positive or negative. And now I find a story that's important to you and likely important to your peers, that you learn from either something new you tried that worked, or even better a failure story that others can learn from if the if you can get the guests comfortable with sharing that. But oftentimes, the failure stories are really where great content happens. Another way to ask that would be, you know, Sammy, what's something that you and your team have recently accomplished, that you're very proud of? Now, you have to be careful with that, because then your guests could kind of go on the PR pitch of their company and their product and those sorts of things. But you can kind of guide them to talk about something that would be useful and helpful for their peers. So those sorts of opening questions, in the point of view discovery process, can allow you to crowdsource the content from the people that you're interviewing, because again, if they are, if they fit the same persona, they're sitting in the same seats, as the listeners you're trying to reach, if they care about it, their peers likely care about it, too.

Sammy:

Yeah, that's really great. And it's an easy process. So you first look for the perfect customer, so to say in your target group, which represents your target group, then you have your comment two to three questions. And there are probably some more that you can ask or think about, and then you get, get valuable insights. And that's important, I think, where your guests are really passionate about. So it's not just they tell a story, and you hear it in the voice and you see it, that they're just telling it because Okay, you ask them to, but it's something that they really deeply care about. And that's what I like, also, for example, about your show, you really see that every time you, it's like magic, if people ignite that spark in people, you can transport emotions via podcast even. And that's nice. That's nice.

Logan:
That's really well said see me at one of our writers. So as we produce podcasts for other companies, part of what we do is then slice and dice that into micro-content, or long-form written content, like a blog post, or micro-video, or a LinkedIn post. And one of our writers told me the other day, when he's listening to podcast episodes, to turn it into additional written content he's listening for when does the inflection of the guest's voice go up? When it like, even if I listened to it at two x, right? You can hear Whoo, they kind of got fired up there. All right, that's probably where we want to dig in and pull out that micro-video clip or something like that. So you're exactly right. It creates more engaging content. And then I'll just kind of, you know, I don't want to camp out here too much. But for anybody that's like, Okay, well, then what? Right, I find out Sammy's kind of differentiated point of view. Now I need to ask some questions, I need to actually go through that. The way that you can do that in a repeatable way. But that is customized for each one is just think like a journalist think what, why, and how. So you actually usually start with the why. So like, Sam, if you said, you know, people are trying to over automate in b2b sales. And that's why you're using something you're really passionate about, you know, my why question would be, why Why are you so passionate about this? Why do you think people are doing it this way? And why aren't they doing it differently? That, okay, well, what does it look like? And what sort of results when people over automate? Okay, and in each one of these, there could be a follow-up question, or if you don't have anything to follow up, and you've kind of tapped out the why you move on to the what? And then most importantly, you always want to make sure you have room for the how. So if we were talking about over automation in sales, see me I could be like, well, how have some of your customers, you know, solve this problem? What has it looked like when they've changed? What sort of changes could they make now you want to make sure your guest doesn't always say, well, they hire us or they buy our product. So you kind of tease that out in the pre-interview call to make sure they have some houses that are gonna be actionable. And then you just start to have empathy for your listener. If I were listening to this, what follow up question would I ask They say, Well, there are a number of different ways you can do that, for example, right like that being the host, to me is way easier than being the guest. Because then I just have to lead you along, Sam and just say, well, what's an example of that? And if you kind of dance around it, is there anywhere that, you know, you've seen that in the last week, and you just, you know, kind of make sure you bring that guest down into the weeds, which is, you know, again, getting into the weeds, getting into the specific tactics is going to be where you create actionable content for the rest of your audience. And that POV discovery, and then the what, why how framework, thinking like a journalist, just gives you a framework to start on, and then you just hone your skills over time as an interviewer.

Sammy:
So one thing I would like to know now is, when you have your guests on your show, and this is a potential customer, how do you make the switch from "you are just a guest" to "hey, we could also talk about what's your problem"? Maybe we have a solution for that. So how do you turn them into a potential prospect?

Logan:

So I actually got a really good tip from a friend of mine, Dylan Hey, he runs Hey digital, which is a PPC marketing agency out of the UK. And he has a podcast. And he invites b2b Marketing Leaders at SAS companies, which are his ideal customer profile, to be guests on his show. And he always asks a recurring question towards the end of the show that is geared towards, you know, what's one of your biggest challenges in marketing right now that you're trying to solve for. Now, that could be something not related to pay per click campaigns, or PPC, which is where Dylan and his team actually specialize. It might be around, you know, we're trying to develop thought leadership, or we're trying to create more content for LinkedIn, or we're trying to figure out, you know, attribution, whatever it is, but if he, in that trigger question that is going to be helpful for the audience. Dylan now has a way to strike up a conversation if he says, well, we're trying to get our cost per click down on these paid ad campaigns, then it would be very natural in one or two conversations later to, for Dylan to say, Hey, I know you probably know, we hope in this area, you know, wouldn't would a, you know, discovery call makes sense. You can make that switch without it feeling, you know, bait and switch or like free time free lunch for the timeshare presentation, sort of thing. If you bake in those, those trigger questions. One of the ways that it's it's happened for me as well, I might have a guest on our podcast, and they're talking about, you know, they're trying to take an account-based approach. Well, post-interview, it would be very logical for me to say, I know you guys are trying to figure out how to go after more specific target accounts. That's where we help with this podcast strategy. And this thing we call content-based networking. I don't want this to feel like a pitch, though. So if that's way out of left field, feel free to tell me to take a hike. And I qualify it that way and make it very, very apparent that they can tell me no, absolutely. And it's not. So it's a little bit more art than science, you kind of have to pick your points. But those are a couple of examples of how you can make that turn. And quite frequently, not only in our experience, but a lot of our customers, they found that they're having that post-interview conversation. And they might be having it with a marketing leader who you know, isn't responsible for booking meetings. They're not the salesperson. But they asked the marketing leader, Hey, can I get a demo of your product? Because they've just spent 30 to 45 minutes, possibly two calls, getting to know them talking shop, and they know this the person who is the host, and they have some relationship with the brand. And so oftentimes, people will ask you, and it's definitely happened to me as well.

Because, you know, see me with some of our guests, they might say, oh, we're trying to figure this out, or we're trying to redesign our website. website redesign is not something we do at sweet fish. But I know people, because we're active in the b2b marketing space, who do pay per click campaigns or do website. And so I'm always looking for, where can I add value? I'm not always looking, where can I throw that right hook and make the sales pitch? But where can I help? And if that if I take the same approach, whether it's us at sweet fish that can help or someone that I know that can help, or a podcast I can recommend, or a blog post that I read that would be applicable to what they're thinking about? that's really what's top of mind for me after that interview in those first few interactions, how can I help. And I think when you do that people, just the Law of Reciprocity kicks in, people start to see you as someone who adds value, and they want to come to you for your expertise. Because through the course of it, they're going to find out what you do, they're going to, you know, be aware of it. So you don't have to come with a hard sales pitch. And, to me, I've been using this methodology of selling for the last two years. For the previous 10. I was doing it the old way. outbound email, outbound cold calls. Hey, Sammy, I know you don't want to get a pitch. But I think I can help at some point, can I get 15 minutes on your calendar? And if it has truly changed the trajectory and the way I think about my sales career in the last two years, approaching it this way. And that's why I just love, love, love what you just said about how can I add value? How can I help? And that might be our company, and I won't apologize for that. I'll make it very easy for them to say no. But I'll also be very, very quick to offer help. That has nothing to do with business for my company.

Sammy:
Yeah, it's another to basically if you have this attitude, I think it's it's attitude of the century. On essentially, you can use a ticket going away from this pushing and back to Hey, I can offer help, and people think about you in this way. And I received that very surely also happened to you. I didn't have some people as a customer directly, but they referred me in the end to someone else who has this problem. So it's a magic bullet. So to say it's always adding value. And we just have a comment from Purvi. I just read it. I initiated a podcast, the wisdom workshop. I hardly ask questions and give the whole space to the interviewee. I think this is also very important. Whenever I want to share my thoughts on a specific topic, I record a podcast with me only.

Logan:
I love that. And it goes back to that mixing up the episode formats we were talking about earlier, you don't have to only have a solo episode podcast, you don't only have to have a guest based podcast, you don't always only have to have one guest right. And that's where having that framework knowing where the guest wants to talk about it and just where you want to lead them as the host you oftentimes do. I've listened to podcasts where the host obviously wants to hear themselves talk more than the interviewee. And it's not a good experience for the listener. And it's also not a good experience for the guest. And so I love that approach of letting the guest have the spotlight. Because as you shine the spotlight on them, you're actually getting that that benefit back to you and your brand, the more that you try to shine the spotlight on yourself, the more people just say, I don't, I don't want to see that. But when you have something very specific to offer, go to that solo episode record a quick five minute, you know, like, what we would do is, you know, hey, we've heard, we've launched five podcasts this past month, and we saw this hang up in all five of these launches, and we want to share it with you if you're you know, looking at working with us or if you're trying to launch your own podcast, learn from these mistakes that we learned this past month, that would be a great solo episode for us to put out rather than having a guest on so pick your points and mix it up. And it also add some variety to your content.

Sammy:
So one question that I also asked myself, Okay, I understand how to get podcast guests. I understand how to be called it. It's not that complicated. We have an idea of how to repurpose content, but it's not necessary in the beginning. But now I have some podcasts recorded. How do I get it out into the world and how do I market it then?

Logan:
LinkedIn, LinkedIn should be your primary focus. I don't care what persona you sell to there. When it comes to social media. There are content-rich, content-saturated channels. And there are unsaturated channels. Meaning are there more consumers of content than there are content creators like YouTube. There. There's more content being created on YouTube than can be consumed on LinkedIn. There's a very, very small percentage of the daily active users who are actually producing and sharing original content themselves. And that's why, you know, I could go on Twitter right now and post something. And I would be ecstatic. If I got 100 views of that tweet on LinkedIn, I'd be really disappointed if I only got 1000 views of a post. And I've seen 510, even 50,000 views of an organic post on LinkedIn. And I'm no Gary Vee, I'm no Seth Godin, I'm no big name. So LinkedIn, you know, social media channels change. If someone's listening to this recording, you know, five years down the line or two years down the line, it may completely be gone. But right now, in the fall of 2020, LinkedIn is the best place to generate more organic reach. Now, when you do that, Sammy, it's very natural to think, where should I promote the podcast? Let's see there was a there's a question here, too. Is it neat necessary to be a premium member? I would say no, the premium membership gives you more access to who's viewed your profile, some email messages, I don't send in mail messages, they get a fire, far lower response rate, then personalized connection requests, and then direct messages. sammies, the LinkedIn expert here. So I'm gonna, I'm assuming that I'm saying something good, because he's nodding. So you could just get on start posting natively. And there are two content types that work really well on LinkedIn natively text posts, and short video clips. Now the video might be a higher lift. But LinkedIn is actually different than Instagram and Facebook posts with images and posts with links actually do much, they do much worse on LinkedIn organically. I think that's because LinkedIn is kind of known to be the place for more immediate, more rich business content. And so write a write 100-word post on LinkedIn, don't put a link in the post just make it valuable in and of itself. That ties back to what I was going to say. I had a post on LinkedIn the other day that said, Stop promoting your podcast on LinkedIn, and start repurposing your content for LinkedIn. Now, when you do the latter, you actually are promoting your show and gaining more. So for instance, what most people do on LinkedIn is say, Hey, I just did a great podcast episode with Sammy, we talked about the three things that are gonna help you, you know, increase reply rates on LinkedIn messages, click the link, what we would do instead is say, like, Sammy, let's say you shared three tips to improve your reply rates, I would actually share them, not tease the content and make someone click through and listen to the episode, when all they're trying to do is scroll LinkedIn and find something good, you're asking them to switch channels, and just teasing them because you want to click through and you want the subscriber. Now, the opposite would then actually share those three tips, put the link to the podcast episode in the first comment. And naturally, you will pick up a few people clicking through, it might be a lower percentage because you're not putting it right in their face. But the post is going to be viewed many more times. And I'd rather have a post be viewed 2000 times and pick up you know, three, three subscribers, then it be viewed, you know, 50 times and pick up one subscriber. It's a higher rate. But really, I want to build trust with my audience on LinkedIn. Because then they'll say, well, Logan's Logan is delivering value here on LinkedIn. I should listen to his podcast because he's probably delivering value over there. Sammy, would you say that you know, the people that you follow and the content that you engage with on LinkedIn and your own habits as a consumer, like the advice I'm giving here, does it fit with you as a consumer on LinkedIn?

Sammy:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I want to give the value now. And everything else seems a little bit like they want to scam me somehow they want to have my email address, they want to spam me with stuff. And I just want to have some help. And what you say is absolutely true. And I would I have some two questions for questions. But what I like a lot is that, that you, as Logan are posting something, so it's not only the b2b growth show, LinkedIn page that is posting something, or the sweet fish media page that is posting something it's you, Logan, who did the interview, who's posting something, and one of our core beliefs is that people connect to people. So suddenly, and you do the podcast, and you take a snippet out of it, people already listen to your voice or see your face if you also be caught the video with it. And so they basically have a personal relationship with you without knowing you. So I can tell you it's so weird. Don't know if I should say no, but it was like, I was feeling almost loopy before the first call, I thought, hey, that's Logan. Like, I listen to this guy, like almost every week. And then I hear your voice and it sounds like I know you, you know. And that is like an amazing, like personal connection you complete without knowing someone. So we purpose in content and using also your own LinkedIn page to promote it is awesome. One question I have is where does the link go that you put in? So do you link to the LinkedIn page? Do you link to your webpage of the b2b go show where you have all the genders like Spotify, or I don't know, iTunes?

Logan:
Yeah, there's a couple of ways you can do this. The way that we do it in the way that I recommend it for what it's worth is every episode of your show should have a post on your website, whether it's a full blog post, or if it's just the player for the episode and the links in all the podcast players and maybe a little graphic that, hey, we interviewed Sammy on episode 1625. And here's the headline, that that can be pretty simple to do. So I would drive people back to your website, for two reasons. it benefits them because you don't know if they listen on Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, whatever the case is, you can drive them there and then provide all the links as opposed to taking that the links in the comment on LinkedIn and giving them all five options every time which isn't clean for them, and it's more work for you. So push them back there. Since you're driving them to an own asset, if you're doing any sort of retargeting ads, you can then share additional content through those retargeting ads, or you might have an email pop up. Now, I'm not a big fan of a slider here and a pop up here and another lead capture form here. But you could say, Hey, want to get you know, a weekly email with our top tips from the podcast. That could be a way for you to not only drive them to potentially subscribe to the podcast but now get them into your email database. Again, you don't want to make the hard turn and just start spamming them. Are you ready to buy? Do you want to buy our product? Do you want to have a discovery call? Come on, Sammy, Sammy, Sammy, but there is power in driving them back to an owned asset, giving them the options of where they want to listen and subscribe. And then you know, having them go down another trail within your nurture sequences via email or retargeting ads.

Logan:
I saw another question in the q&a about the software toolkit and the equipment to get started if you're just getting started.

Logan:
The mic that I have in front of me it looks fairly fancy but all of the equipment I have in front of me here is less than $300 between the mic and the shock mount and the boom arm. You know oftentimes if you and the mic itself is less than $100 and it connects via USB. So that's where you could go if you don't have that a noise-canceling headset, or if you don't have that wired headphones with the mic, you know go old school forget that the air pods. These wired headphones with a dynamic mic actually are really good at isolating the sound just like a podcast mic if I talk over here. You can't hear me as well as if I'm talking right in front of the mic where it's picking up the most sound. As far as recording there are some great podcast options out there like Zen caster and ringer. We actually recommend to our customers Zoom is phenomenal even though it's not built for podcasting. There are a few drawbacks when it comes to the audio and video quality. But just it's so easy for people to join zoom these days, if nine-year-olds and 90-year-olds can get on zoom, then most of your guests can probably get on zoom. And it allows you to very easily record, audio and video. And we're big fans of not only the audio-only podcast, but the video clips. Another good one that does a really good job of capturing audio and video, higher quality than zoom. It's not as well known as zoom, but easy for guests to get in is one called Riverside riverside.fm is one I'd highly suggest folks to look at. So also if anyone I know we'll share kind of next steps and stuff like that in a bit. But if you send me a direct message on LinkedIn, I can share you share with you the exact elements on Amazon that you can get in this setup that you see right in front of me. Not the cool Mike flag, but you can get one of those if you're a customer.

How did sweetfish Media get into podcasting?
How do you get in touch with potential podcast guests and convince them to come on the podcast
How to brand your podcast
Why weekly podcasts are more successful than less frequent ones
Batch production of podcast episodes to overcome the difficulty of weekly podcasting
The creative process behind podcasting to find new topics every week
How to turn podcast guests into potential leads
Why giving your guest time to shine in your episode improves your quality as a podcast
LinkedIn as the best platform to promote and distribute your podcast
Logans recommendations on a software toolkit and gadgets for starting a podcast